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sweetbum
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 Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: Is A Fertilized Egg A Human "Person"? COLORADO Anti-Abortio |
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Which naturally prompts the question: Can an embryo be tried as an
adult?
--------------------------
"Voters Will Be Asked When 'Personhood' Begins"
By Ashley Surdin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 13, 2008; A04
LOS ANGELES -- A proposal to define a fertilized human egg as a person
will land on Colorado's ballot this November, marking the first time
that the question of when life begins will go before voters anywhere
in the nation.
The Human Life Amendment, also known as the personhood amendment, says
the words "person" or "persons" in the state constitution should
"include any human being from the moment of fertilization." If voters
agreed, legal experts say, it would give fertilized eggs the same
legal rights and protections to which people are entitled.
The ballot initiative is funded by Colorado for Equal Rights, a grass-
roots antiabortion organization. Its purpose, initiative sponsor
Kristi Burton said, is to lay a legal and legislative basis for
protecting the unborn. Its passage would also open the door to
modifying other laws for the same purpose, she said.
As to what laws could then be modified, Burton would not elaborate.
"We try not to focus on some of the issues that will be taken care of
later on," she said, repeatedly saying that the amendment is not aimed
at outlawing abortion.
But that is the objective, according to one of the measure's biggest
supporters, Colorado Right to Life. "The goal is to restore legal
protection to preborn babies from the moment they are conceived, which
is the only way we're going to stop abortion," said Leslie Hanks, vice
president of the group.
Critics say the aim is not just to outlaw abortion in Colorado but
ultimately to overturn Roe v. Wade by igniting a court battle that
would bring the issue to the U.S. Supreme Court, where, proponents of
the measure hope, a conservative majority would strike down the 1973
decision that legalized abortion nationwide.
And the amendment carries broader implications, critics say, such as
limiting medical research involving embryos, inviting intrusive
government oversight of pregnancies, and banning certain
contraception, including the morning-after pill and the intrauterine
device, or IUD.
"If we give fertilized eggs legal rights, abortion could be considered
murder and a woman could be sent to jail for making the difficult life
decision to terminate a pregnancy," said Crystal Clinkenbeard,
spokeswoman for Protect Families, Protect Choice, a coalition of
medical professionals, community groups and religious leaders who
oppose the amendment.
The measure also could expand the reach of the law into other arenas,
legal experts say. For instance, if a woman miscarries, she could be
held responsible if it were found she caused it, even unintentionally.
If she smoked or drank while pregnant, her behavior might be
considered negligence. Damaged eggs might be eligible for monetary
damages. The use of fertilized eggs at fertility clinics or in medical
research labs would come into question because the disposal of unused
eggs could be considered homicide.
"Because this amendment would define a person in a given way and
expand the universe of who persons are, it expands the reach of laws
that deal with persons," said Bill Araiza, a law professor at Loyola
University in Los Angeles.
The amendment also calls into question pregnant women's medical
access, said Scott Moss, a professor at the University of Colorado Law
School. "If a pregnant woman is really two people with exactly equal
rights, then it is not clear the pregnant woman can undergo any
medical treatment that jeopardizes a fertilized egg," he said, adding
that the amendment would generate a flood of litigation.
Colorado is the first state to succeed in putting this particular
question to voters, but several others have tried to recognize
fertilized eggs as persons through ballot initiatives or legislation.
"Even though the success wasn't immediate, this battle isn't over,"
said Robert Muise, a lawyer with the Michigan-based Thomas More Law
Center, a Christian public interest firm that has drafted language for
efforts in Oregon, Montana and Georgia. "This is just the first
round."
Colorado's initiative has proved divisive among abortion opponents.
Hanks, from Colorado Right to Life, said a memo had been circulating
among legislators and antiabortion leaders arguing that the timing and
language of the measure are not right.
Groups such as National Right to Life, which separated itself from its
Colorado counterpart over a separate issue, and Focus on the Family
have not supported the initiative either, Hanks said. "They surely
haven't helped us," she said. "We've gone this alone in Colorado."
Carrie Gordon Earll, senior director of issues analysis at Focus on
the Family, said the organization supports efforts to ban abortion,
but not the Colorado strategy. "In our view, you don't have to have a
personhood amendment before the court to overturn Roe v. Wade. You
just need the right court. So we are more interested in the makeup of
the court than what particular challenge comes before the court," she
said.
The Colorado Supreme Court ruled that the measure could go before
voters in November, but it is unclear whether support will be found at
the polls.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/12/AR2008071201615.html |
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Bob Eld
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Is A Fertilized Egg A Human "Person"? COLORADO Anti-Abo |
|
|
"sweetbum" <lilhornie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c498caae-29ef-4f39-9db8-ffc142f34dae@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Which naturally prompts the question: Can an embryo be tried as an
adult?
--------------------------
"Voters Will Be Asked When 'Personhood' Begins"
By Ashley Surdin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 13, 2008; A04
LOS ANGELES -- A proposal to define a fertilized human egg as a person
will land on Colorado's ballot this November, marking the first time
that the question of when life begins will go before voters anywhere
in the nation.
The Human Life Amendment, also known as the personhood amendment, says
the words "person" or "persons" in the state constitution should
"include any human being from the moment of fertilization." If voters
agreed, legal experts say, it would give fertilized eggs the same
legal rights and protections to which people are entitled.
The ballot initiative is funded by Colorado for Equal Rights, a grass-
roots antiabortion organization. Its purpose, initiative sponsor
Kristi Burton said, is to lay a legal and legislative basis for
protecting the unborn. Its passage would also open the door to
modifying other laws for the same purpose, she said.
As to what laws could then be modified, Burton would not elaborate.
"We try not to focus on some of the issues that will be taken care of
later on," she said, repeatedly saying that the amendment is not aimed
at outlawing abortion.
But that is the objective, according to one of the measure's biggest
supporters, Colorado Right to Life. "The goal is to restore legal
protection to preborn babies from the moment they are conceived, which
is the only way we're going to stop abortion," said Leslie Hanks, vice
president of the group.
cut..... |
Idiots...They'll stop abortion just like they've stopped illegal drug use.
They'll never stop abortion or any other activity humans want to do. The
poor will revert to the back alleys and coat hangers and the rich will fly
off to France. Just what do they think they will accomplish except to
complicate the law and in true republican fashion try to control what people
do by sticking obtrusive government more into peoples lives. |
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#1 Donkey
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: Is A Fertilized Egg A Human "Person"? COLORADO Anti-Abor |
|
|
On Jul 13, 8:47 am, "Bob Eld" <nsmontas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"sweetbum" <lilhor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c498caae-29ef-4f39-9db8-ffc142f34dae@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Which naturally prompts the question: Can an embryo be tried as an
adult?
--------------------------
"Voters Will Be Asked When 'Personhood' Begins"
By Ashley Surdin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 13, 2008; A04
LOS ANGELES -- A proposal to define a fertilized human egg as a person
will land on Colorado's ballot this November, marking the first time
that the question of when life begins will go before voters anywhere
in the nation.
The Human Life Amendment, also known as the personhood amendment, says
the words "person" or "persons" in the state constitution should
"include any human being from the moment of fertilization." If voters
agreed, legal experts say, it would give fertilized eggs the same
legal rights and protections to which people are entitled.
The ballot initiative is funded by Colorado for Equal Rights, a grass-
roots antiabortion organization. Its purpose, initiative sponsor
Kristi Burton said, is to lay a legal and legislative basis for
protecting the unborn. Its passage would also open the door to
modifying other laws for the same purpose, she said.
As to what laws could then be modified, Burton would not elaborate.
"We try not to focus on some of the issues that will be taken care of
later on," she said, repeatedly saying that the amendment is not aimed
at outlawing abortion.
But that is the objective, according to one of the measure's biggest
supporters, Colorado Right to Life. "The goal is to restore legal
protection to preborn babies from the moment they are conceived, which
is the only way we're going to stop abortion," said Leslie Hanks, vice
president of the group.
cut.....
Idiots...They'll stop abortion just like they've stopped illegal drug use..
They'll never stop abortion or any other activity humans want to do. The
poor will revert to the back alleys and coat hangers and the rich will fly
off to France. Just what do they think they will accomplish except to
complicate the law and in true republican fashion try to control what people
do by sticking obtrusive government more into peoples lives.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
|
I think they should go farther than that. Every spermazoid should be
considered a human life so no more jacking off. |
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Drooling Idiot
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: Is A Fertilized Egg A Human "Person"? COLORADO Anti-Abo |
|
|
sweetbum <lilhornie@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Which naturally prompts the question: Can an embryo be tried as an
adult?
|
I've hear that McCain is trying to get them to join the military and go to
Iraq.
| Quote: |
--------------------------
"Voters Will Be Asked When 'Personhood' Begins"
By Ashley Surdin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 13, 2008; A04
LOS ANGELES -- A proposal to define a fertilized human egg as a person
will land on Colorado's ballot this November, marking the first time
that the question of when life begins will go before voters anywhere
in the nation.
The Human Life Amendment, also known as the personhood amendment, says
the words "person" or "persons" in the state constitution should
"include any human being from the moment of fertilization." If voters
agreed, legal experts say, it would give fertilized eggs the same
legal rights and protections to which people are entitled.
The ballot initiative is funded by Colorado for Equal Rights, a grass-
roots antiabortion organization. Its purpose, initiative sponsor
Kristi Burton said, is to lay a legal and legislative basis for
protecting the unborn. Its passage would also open the door to
modifying other laws for the same purpose, she said.
As to what laws could then be modified, Burton would not elaborate.
"We try not to focus on some of the issues that will be taken care of
later on," she said, repeatedly saying that the amendment is not aimed
at outlawing abortion.
But that is the objective, according to one of the measure's biggest
supporters, Colorado Right to Life. "The goal is to restore legal
protection to preborn babies from the moment they are conceived, which
is the only way we're going to stop abortion," said Leslie Hanks, vice
president of the group.
Critics say the aim is not just to outlaw abortion in Colorado but
ultimately to overturn Roe v. Wade by igniting a court battle that
would bring the issue to the U.S. Supreme Court, where, proponents of
the measure hope, a conservative majority would strike down the 1973
decision that legalized abortion nationwide.
And the amendment carries broader implications, critics say, such as
limiting medical research involving embryos, inviting intrusive
government oversight of pregnancies, and banning certain
contraception, including the morning-after pill and the intrauterine
device, or IUD.
"If we give fertilized eggs legal rights, abortion could be considered
murder and a woman could be sent to jail for making the difficult life
decision to terminate a pregnancy," said Crystal Clinkenbeard,
spokeswoman for Protect Families, Protect Choice, a coalition of
medical professionals, community groups and religious leaders who
oppose the amendment.
The measure also could expand the reach of the law into other arenas,
legal experts say. For instance, if a woman miscarries, she could be
held responsible if it were found she caused it, even unintentionally.
If she smoked or drank while pregnant, her behavior might be
considered negligence. Damaged eggs might be eligible for monetary
damages. The use of fertilized eggs at fertility clinics or in medical
research labs would come into question because the disposal of unused
eggs could be considered homicide.
"Because this amendment would define a person in a given way and
expand the universe of who persons are, it expands the reach of laws
that deal with persons," said Bill Araiza, a law professor at Loyola
University in Los Angeles.
The amendment also calls into question pregnant women's medical
access, said Scott Moss, a professor at the University of Colorado Law
School. "If a pregnant woman is really two people with exactly equal
rights, then it is not clear the pregnant woman can undergo any
medical treatment that jeopardizes a fertilized egg," he said, adding
that the amendment would generate a flood of litigation.
Colorado is the first state to succeed in putting this particular
question to voters, but several others have tried to recognize
fertilized eggs as persons through ballot initiatives or legislation.
"Even though the success wasn't immediate, this battle isn't over,"
said Robert Muise, a lawyer with the Michigan-based Thomas More Law
Center, a Christian public interest firm that has drafted language for
efforts in Oregon, Montana and Georgia. "This is just the first
round."
Colorado's initiative has proved divisive among abortion opponents.
Hanks, from Colorado Right to Life, said a memo had been circulating
among legislators and antiabortion leaders arguing that the timing and
language of the measure are not right.
Groups such as National Right to Life, which separated itself from its
Colorado counterpart over a separate issue, and Focus on the Family
have not supported the initiative either, Hanks said. "They surely
haven't helped us," she said. "We've gone this alone in Colorado."
Carrie Gordon Earll, senior director of issues analysis at Focus on
the Family, said the organization supports efforts to ban abortion,
but not the Colorado strategy. "In our view, you don't have to have a
personhood amendment before the court to overturn Roe v. Wade. You
just need the right court. So we are more interested in the makeup of
the court than what particular challenge comes before the court," she
said.
The Colorado Supreme Court ruled that the measure could go before
voters in November, but it is unclear whether support will be found at
the polls.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/12/AR2008071
201615.html |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: Re: Is A Fertilized Egg A Human "Person"? COLORADO Anti-Abor |
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X-No-Archive:
On Jul 14, 9:42 am, "Avenger" <aven...@avengers.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Bob Eld" <nsmontas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9Aoek.14170$xZ.3823@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
"sweetbum" <lilhor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c498caae-29ef-4f39-9db8-ffc142f34dae@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Which naturally prompts the question: Can an embryo be tried as an
adult?
--------------------------
"Voters Will Be Asked When 'Personhood' Begins"
By Ashley Surdin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 13, 2008; A04
LOS ANGELES -- A proposal to define a fertilized human egg as a person
will land on Colorado's ballot this November, marking the first time
that the question of when life begins will go before voters anywhere
in the nation.
The Human Life Amendment, also known as the personhood amendment, says
the words "person" or "persons" in the state constitution should
"include any human being from the moment of fertilization."
You know that not even the Catholic church considers this a human life, they
just call it life or potential human life. If a Catholic female has a
miscarriage before a certain point( I don't remember it) the church actually
forbids naming the foetus or giving it a Christian burial because they don't
consider it as having a soul. You're just supposed to dispose of it as you
would a dead animal or something. If the miscarriage happens later in the
pregnancy then you must name it and give it a Catholic burial.
You'll notice that when Jacqualine Kennedy, a catholic. had a few
miscarriages that only 1 was actually named and buried.
If voters
agreed, legal experts say, it would give fertilized eggs the same
legal rights and protections to which people are entitled.
The ballot initiative is funded by Colorado for Equal Rights, a grass-
roots antiabortion organization. Its purpose, initiative sponsor
Kristi Burton said, is to lay a legal and legislative basis for
protecting the unborn. Its passage would also open the door to
modifying other laws for the same purpose, she said.
As to what laws could then be modified, Burton would not elaborate.
"We try not to focus on some of the issues that will be taken care of
later on," she said, repeatedly saying that the amendment is not aimed
at outlawing abortion.
But that is the objective, according to one of the measure's biggest
supporters, Colorado Right to Life. "The goal is to restore legal
protection to preborn babies from the moment they are conceived, which
is the only way we're going to stop abortion," said Leslie Hanks, vice
president of the group.
cut.....
Idiots...They'll stop abortion just like they've stopped illegal drug use.
That's vitually impossible. Abortions in Europe today are mostly by using
drugs and drugs can't be controlled.
They'll never stop abortion or any other activity humans want to do. The
poor will revert to the back alleys and coat hangers
That is actually a myth. Abortions were generally done by competent people
when it was illegal. Do you think that they would botch an abortion where
the female died and they'd be charged with 1st degree murder? Or where she
had to go to a hospital and then they'd be investigated.
and the rich will fly
off to France.
Nonsense. Doctors always performed abortions, they just called it something
else in the records.
|
They still do. My brothers both work in hospitals, one as an
anethetist and the other as an emergency medicine specialist. Both
have seen abortions performed on young girls and often the nature of
the surgery is disguised to protect the girl. There are a variety of
reasons for this, but usually the girl is afraid of her parents
finding out that she was pregnant.
| Quote: |
Just what do they think they will accomplish except to
complicate the law and in true republican fashion try to control what
people
do by sticking obtrusive government more into peoples lives. |
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Ranting
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:02 am Post subject: Re: Is A Fertilized Egg A Human "Person"? COLORADO Anti-Abo |
|
|
"Bob Eld" <nsmontassoc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9Aoek.14170$xZ.3823@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
| Quote: |
Idiots...They'll stop abortion just like they've stopped illegal drug use.
They'll never stop abortion or any other activity humans want to do. The
poor will revert to the back alleys and coat hangers and the rich will fly
off to France. Just what do they think they will accomplish except to
complicate the law and in true republican fashion try to control what
people
do by sticking obtrusive government more into peoples lives.
|
That backalley and coat hangers still remains one of the biggest lies ever
put out by the pro abortion groups. |
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Ranting
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:03 am Post subject: Re: Is A Fertilized Egg A Human "Person"? COLORADO Anti-Abo |
|
|
"sweetbum" <lilhornie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c498caae-29ef-4f39-9db8-ffc142f34dae@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Which naturally prompts the question: Can an embryo be tried as an
adult?
--------------------------
|
No , but a person can be tried and convicted for killing an embryo and
feminists just love that. |
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Avenger
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: Re: Is A Fertilized Egg A Human "Person"? COLORADO Anti-Abo |
|
|
"Bob Eld" <nsmontassoc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9Aoek.14170$xZ.3823@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
| Quote: |
"sweetbum" <lilhornie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c498caae-29ef-4f39-9db8-ffc142f34dae@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Which naturally prompts the question: Can an embryo be tried as an
adult?
--------------------------
"Voters Will Be Asked When 'Personhood' Begins"
By Ashley Surdin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 13, 2008; A04
LOS ANGELES -- A proposal to define a fertilized human egg as a person
will land on Colorado's ballot this November, marking the first time
that the question of when life begins will go before voters anywhere
in the nation.
The Human Life Amendment, also known as the personhood amendment, says
the words "person" or "persons" in the state constitution should
"include any human being from the moment of fertilization."
|
You know that not even the Catholic church considers this a human life, they
just call it life or potential human life. If a Catholic female has a
miscarriage before a certain point( I don't remember it) the church actually
forbids naming the foetus or giving it a Christian burial because they don't
consider it as having a soul. You're just supposed to dispose of it as you
would a dead animal or something. If the miscarriage happens later in the
pregnancy then you must name it and give it a Catholic burial.
You'll notice that when Jacqualine Kennedy, a catholic. had a few
miscarriages that only 1 was actually named and buried.
If voters
| Quote: |
agreed, legal experts say, it would give fertilized eggs the same
legal rights and protections to which people are entitled.
The ballot initiative is funded by Colorado for Equal Rights, a grass-
roots antiabortion organization. Its purpose, initiative sponsor
Kristi Burton said, is to lay a legal and legislative basis for
protecting the unborn. Its passage would also open the door to
modifying other laws for the same purpose, she said.
As to what laws could then be modified, Burton would not elaborate.
"We try not to focus on some of the issues that will be taken care of
later on," she said, repeatedly saying that the amendment is not aimed
at outlawing abortion.
But that is the objective, according to one of the measure's biggest
supporters, Colorado Right to Life. "The goal is to restore legal
protection to preborn babies from the moment they are conceived, which
is the only way we're going to stop abortion," said Leslie Hanks, vice
president of the group.
cut.....
Idiots...They'll stop abortion just like they've stopped illegal drug use.
|
That's vitually impossible. Abortions in Europe today are mostly by using
drugs and drugs can't be controlled.
| Quote: |
They'll never stop abortion or any other activity humans want to do. The
poor will revert to the back alleys and coat hangers
|
That is actually a myth. Abortions were generally done by competent people
when it was illegal. Do you think that they would botch an abortion where
the female died and they'd be charged with 1st degree murder? Or where she
had to go to a hospital and then they'd be investigated.
and the rich will fly
Nonsense. Doctors always performed abortions, they just called it something
else in the records.
Just what do they think they will accomplish except to
| Quote: |
complicate the law and in true republican fashion try to control what
people
do by sticking obtrusive government more into peoples lives.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Bob Eld
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: Re: Is A Fertilized Egg A Human "Person"? COLORADO Anti-Abor |
|
|
"#1 Donkey" <number_1_donkey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f1eafa48-beeb-40d0-a9ff-9acdc2c34b7f@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 13, 8:47 am, "Bob Eld" <nsmontas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"sweetbum" <lilhor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c498caae-29ef-4f39-9db8-ffc142f34dae@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Which naturally prompts the question: Can an embryo be tried as an
adult?
--------------------------
"Voters Will Be Asked When 'Personhood' Begins"
By Ashley Surdin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 13, 2008; A04
LOS ANGELES -- A proposal to define a fertilized human egg as a person
will land on Colorado's ballot this November, marking the first time
that the question of when life begins will go before voters anywhere
in the nation.
The Human Life Amendment, also known as the personhood amendment, says
the words "person" or "persons" in the state constitution should
"include any human being from the moment of fertilization." If voters
agreed, legal experts say, it would give fertilized eggs the same
legal rights and protections to which people are entitled.
The ballot initiative is funded by Colorado for Equal Rights, a grass-
roots antiabortion organization. Its purpose, initiative sponsor
Kristi Burton said, is to lay a legal and legislative basis for
protecting the unborn. Its passage would also open the door to
modifying other laws for the same purpose, she said.
As to what laws could then be modified, Burton would not elaborate.
"We try not to focus on some of the issues that will be taken care of
later on," she said, repeatedly saying that the amendment is not aimed
at outlawing abortion.
But that is the objective, according to one of the measure's biggest
supporters, Colorado Right to Life. "The goal is to restore legal
protection to preborn babies from the moment they are conceived, which
is the only way we're going to stop abortion," said Leslie Hanks, vice
president of the group.
cut.....
Idiots...They'll stop abortion just like they've stopped illegal drug use.
They'll never stop abortion or any other activity humans want to do. The
poor will revert to the back alleys and coat hangers and the rich will fly
off to France. Just what do they think they will accomplish except to
complicate the law and in true republican fashion try to control what
people
do by sticking obtrusive government more into peoples lives.- Hide quoted
text -
- Show quoted text -
|
I think they should go farther than that. Every spermazoid should be
considered a human life so no more jacking off.
Damn, I just killed 100 million "babies" this morning, Makes about as much
sense. |
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Reality_CheckŠ
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Is A Fertilized Egg A Human "Person"? COLORADO Anti-Abo |
|
|
"sweetbum" <lilhornie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c498caae-29ef-4f39-9db8-ffc142f34dae@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Which naturally prompts the question: Can an embryo be tried as an
adult?
--------------------------
"Voters Will Be Asked When 'Personhood' Begins"
By Ashley Surdin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 13, 2008; A04
LOS ANGELES -- A proposal to define a fertilized human egg as a person
will land on Colorado's ballot this November, marking the first time
that the question of when life begins will go before voters anywhere
in the nation.
The Human Life Amendment, also known as the personhood amendment, says
the words "person" or "persons" in the state constitution should
"include any human being from the moment of fertilization." If voters
agreed, legal experts say, it would give fertilized eggs the same
legal rights and protections to which people are entitled.
The ballot initiative is funded by Colorado for Equal Rights, a grass-
roots antiabortion organization. Its purpose, initiative sponsor
Kristi Burton said, is to lay a legal and legislative basis for
protecting the unborn. Its passage would also open the door to
modifying other laws for the same purpose, she said.
As to what laws could then be modified, Burton would not elaborate.
"We try not to focus on some of the issues that will be taken care of
later on," she said, repeatedly saying that the amendment is not aimed
at outlawing abortion.
But that is the objective, according to one of the measure's biggest
supporters, Colorado Right to Life. "The goal is to restore legal
protection to preborn babies from the moment they are conceived, which
is the only way we're going to stop abortion," said Leslie Hanks, vice
president of the group.
Critics say the aim is not just to outlaw abortion in Colorado but
ultimately to overturn Roe v. Wade by igniting a court battle that
would bring the issue to the U.S. Supreme Court, where, proponents of
the measure hope, a conservative majority would strike down the 1973
decision that legalized abortion nationwide.
And the amendment carries broader implications, critics say, such as
limiting medical research involving embryos, inviting intrusive
government oversight of pregnancies, and banning certain
contraception, including the morning-after pill and the intrauterine
device, or IUD.
"If we give fertilized eggs legal rights, abortion could be considered
murder and a woman could be sent to jail for making the difficult life
decision to terminate a pregnancy," said Crystal Clinkenbeard,
spokeswoman for Protect Families, Protect Choice, a coalition of
medical professionals, community groups and religious leaders who
oppose the amendment.
The measure also could expand the reach of the law into other arenas,
legal experts say. For instance, if a woman miscarries, she could be
held responsible if it were found she caused it, even unintentionally.
If she smoked or drank while pregnant, her behavior might be
considered negligence. Damaged eggs might be eligible for monetary
damages. The use of fertilized eggs at fertility clinics or in medical
research labs would come into question because the disposal of unused
eggs could be considered homicide.
"Because this amendment would define a person in a given way and
expand the universe of who persons are, it expands the reach of laws
that deal with persons," said Bill Araiza, a law professor at Loyola
University in Los Angeles.
The amendment also calls into question pregnant women's medical
access, said Scott Moss, a professor at the University of Colorado Law
School. "If a pregnant woman is really two people with exactly equal
rights, then it is not clear the pregnant woman can undergo any
medical treatment that jeopardizes a fertilized egg," he said, adding
that the amendment would generate a flood of litigation.
Colorado is the first state to succeed in putting this particular
question to voters, but several others have tried to recognize
fertilized eggs as persons through ballot initiatives or legislation.
"Even though the success wasn't immediate, this battle isn't over,"
said Robert Muise, a lawyer with the Michigan-based Thomas More Law
Center, a Christian public interest firm that has drafted language for
efforts in Oregon, Montana and Georgia. "This is just the first
round."
Colorado's initiative has proved divisive among abortion opponents.
Hanks, from Colorado Right to Life, said a memo had been circulating
among legislators and antiabortion leaders arguing that the timing and
language of the measure are not right.
Groups such as National Right to Life, which separated itself from its
Colorado counterpart over a separate issue, and Focus on the Family
have not supported the initiative either, Hanks said. "They surely
haven't helped us," she said. "We've gone this alone in Colorado."
Carrie Gordon Earll, senior director of issues analysis at Focus on
the Family, said the organization supports efforts to ban abortion,
but not the Colorado strategy. "In our view, you don't have to have a
personhood amendment before the court to overturn Roe v. Wade. You
just need the right court. So we are more interested in the makeup of
the court than what particular challenge comes before the court," she
said.
The Colorado Supreme Court ruled that the measure could go before
voters in November, but it is unclear whether support will be found at
the polls.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/12/AR2008071201615.html |
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Attila
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Is A Fertilized Egg A Human "Person"? COLORADO Anti-Abo |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:51:06 -0600, "Reality_CheckŠ"
<Reality@Check.it> in alt.abortion with message-id
<6e049rF4lf9iU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
"sweetbum" <lilhornie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c498caae-29ef-4f39-9db8-ffc142f34dae@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Which naturally prompts the question: Can an embryo be tried as an
adult?
--------------------------
"Voters Will Be Asked When 'Personhood' Begins"
By Ashley Surdin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 13, 2008; A04
LOS ANGELES -- A proposal to define a fertilized human egg as a person
will land on Colorado's ballot this November, marking the first time
that the question of when life begins will go before voters anywhere
in the nation.
The Human Life Amendment, also known as the personhood amendment, says
the words "person" or "persons" in the state constitution should
"include any human being from the moment of fertilization." If voters
agreed, legal experts say, it would give fertilized eggs the same
legal rights and protections to which people are entitled.
The ballot initiative is funded by Colorado for Equal Rights, a grass-
roots antiabortion organization. Its purpose, initiative sponsor
Kristi Burton said, is to lay a legal and legislative basis for
protecting the unborn. Its passage would also open the door to
modifying other laws for the same purpose, she said.
As to what laws could then be modified, Burton would not elaborate.
"We try not to focus on some of the issues that will be taken care of
later on," she said, repeatedly saying that the amendment is not aimed
at outlawing abortion.
But that is the objective, according to one of the measure's biggest
supporters, Colorado Right to Life. "The goal is to restore legal
protection to preborn babies from the moment they are conceived, which
is the only way we're going to stop abortion," said Leslie Hanks, vice
president of the group.
Critics say the aim is not just to outlaw abortion in Colorado but
ultimately to overturn Roe v. Wade by igniting a court battle that
would bring the issue to the U.S. Supreme Court, where, proponents of
the measure hope, a conservative majority would strike down the 1973
decision that legalized abortion nationwide.
And the amendment carries broader implications, critics say, such as
limiting medical research involving embryos, inviting intrusive
government oversight of pregnancies, and banning certain
contraception, including the morning-after pill and the intrauterine
device, or IUD.
"If we give fertilized eggs legal rights, abortion could be considered
murder and a woman could be sent to jail for making the difficult life
decision to terminate a pregnancy," said Crystal Clinkenbeard,
spokeswoman for Protect Families, Protect Choice, a coalition of
medical professionals, community groups and religious leaders who
oppose the amendment.
The measure also could expand the reach of the law into other arenas,
legal experts say. For instance, if a woman miscarries, she could be
held responsible if it were found she caused it, even unintentionally.
If she smoked or drank while pregnant, her behavior might be
considered negligence. Damaged eggs might be eligible for monetary
damages. The use of fertilized eggs at fertility clinics or in medical
research labs would come into question because the disposal of unused
eggs could be considered homicide.
"Because this amendment would define a person in a given way and
expand the universe of who persons are, it expands the reach of laws
that deal with persons," said Bill Araiza, a law professor at Loyola
University in Los Angeles.
The amendment also calls into question pregnant women's medical
access, said Scott Moss, a professor at the University of Colorado Law
School. "If a pregnant woman is really two people with exactly equal
rights, then it is not clear the pregnant woman can undergo any
medical treatment that jeopardizes a fertilized egg," he said, adding
that the amendment would generate a flood of litigation.
Colorado is the first state to succeed in putting this particular
question to voters, but several others have tried to recognize
fertilized eggs as persons through ballot initiatives or legislation.
"Even though the success wasn't immediate, this battle isn't over,"
said Robert Muise, a lawyer with the Michigan-based Thomas More Law
Center, a Christian public interest firm that has drafted language for
efforts in Oregon, Montana and Georgia. "This is just the first
round."
Colorado's initiative has proved divisive among abortion opponents.
Hanks, from Colorado Right to Life, said a memo had been circulating
among legislators and antiabortion leaders arguing that the timing and
language of the measure are not right.
Groups such as National Right to Life, which separated itself from its
Colorado counterpart over a separate issue, and Focus on the Family
have not supported the initiative either, Hanks said. "They surely
haven't helped us," she said. "We've gone this alone in Colorado."
Carrie Gordon Earll, senior director of issues analysis at Focus on
the Family, said the organization supports efforts to ban abortion,
but not the Colorado strategy. "In our view, you don't have to have a
personhood amendment before the court to overturn Roe v. Wade. You
just need the right court. So we are more interested in the makeup of
the court than what particular challenge comes before the court," she
said.
The Colorado Supreme Court ruled that the measure could go before
voters in November, but it is unclear whether support will be found at
the polls.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/12/AR2008071201615.html
|
This reminds me of a law making pi = 4.0000000
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification, not work permit or citizenship.
Support H.R. 1940: Birthright Citizenship Act of 2007 |
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Avenger
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Is A Fertilized Egg A Human "Person"? COLORADO Anti-Abor |
|
|
<justwaxing@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:11820b84-6c80-4102-8a4d-8ab8b5dc510d@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
X-No-Archive:
On Jul 14, 9:42 am, "Avenger" <aven...@avengers.co.uk> wrote:
"Bob Eld" <nsmontas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9Aoek.14170$xZ.3823@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
"sweetbum" <lilhor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c498caae-29ef-4f39-9db8-ffc142f34dae@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Which naturally prompts the question: Can an embryo be tried as an
adult?
--------------------------
"Voters Will Be Asked When 'Personhood' Begins"
By Ashley Surdin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 13, 2008; A04
LOS ANGELES -- A proposal to define a fertilized human egg as a person
will land on Colorado's ballot this November, marking the first time
that the question of when life begins will go before voters anywhere
in the nation.
The Human Life Amendment, also known as the personhood amendment, says
the words "person" or "persons" in the state constitution should
"include any human being from the moment of fertilization."
You know that not even the Catholic church considers this a human life,
they
just call it life or potential human life. If a Catholic female has a
miscarriage before a certain point( I don't remember it) the church
actually
forbids naming the foetus or giving it a Christian burial because they
don't
consider it as having a soul. You're just supposed to dispose of it as
you
would a dead animal or something. If the miscarriage happens later in the
pregnancy then you must name it and give it a Catholic burial.
You'll notice that when Jacqualine Kennedy, a catholic. had a few
miscarriages that only 1 was actually named and buried.
If voters
agreed, legal experts say, it would give fertilized eggs the same
legal rights and protections to which people are entitled.
The ballot initiative is funded by Colorado for Equal Rights, a grass-
roots antiabortion organization. Its purpose, initiative sponsor
Kristi Burton said, is to lay a legal and legislative basis for
protecting the unborn. Its passage would also open the door to
modifying other laws for the same purpose, she said.
As to what laws could then be modified, Burton would not elaborate.
"We try not to focus on some of the issues that will be taken care of
later on," she said, repeatedly saying that the amendment is not aimed
at outlawing abortion.
But that is the objective, according to one of the measure's biggest
supporters, Colorado Right to Life. "The goal is to restore legal
protection to preborn babies from the moment they are conceived, which
is the only way we're going to stop abortion," said Leslie Hanks, vice
president of the group.
cut.....
Idiots...They'll stop abortion just like they've stopped illegal drug
use.
That's vitually impossible. Abortions in Europe today are mostly by using
drugs and drugs can't be controlled.
They'll never stop abortion or any other activity humans want to do.
The
poor will revert to the back alleys and coat hangers
That is actually a myth. Abortions were generally done by competent
people
when it was illegal. Do you think that they would botch an abortion where
the female died and they'd be charged with 1st degree murder? Or where
she
had to go to a hospital and then they'd be investigated.
and the rich will fly
off to France.
Nonsense. Doctors always performed abortions, they just called it
something
else in the records.
They still do. My brothers both work in hospitals, one as an
anethetist and the other as an emergency medicine specialist. Both
have seen abortions performed on young girls and often the nature of
the surgery is disguised to protect the girl. There are a variety of
reasons for this, but usually the girl is afraid of her parents
finding out that she was pregnant.
|
But it's legal there. I was referring to when abortion was illegal in most
places.
| Quote: |
Just what do they think they will accomplish except to
complicate the law and in true republican fashion try to control what
people
do by sticking obtrusive government more into peoples lives.
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_ Prof. Jonez _
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Is A Fertilized Egg A Human "Person"? COLORADO Anti-Abo |
|
|
Attila wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:51:06 -0600, "Reality_CheckŠ"
Reality@Check.it> in alt.abortion with message-id
6e049rF4lf9iU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
"sweetbum" <lilhornie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c498caae-29ef-4f39-9db8-ffc142f34dae@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Which naturally prompts the question: Can an embryo be tried as an
adult?
--------------------------
"Voters Will Be Asked When 'Personhood' Begins"
By Ashley Surdin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 13, 2008; A04
LOS ANGELES -- A proposal to define a fertilized human egg as a
person will land on Colorado's ballot this November, marking the
first time that the question of when life begins will go before
voters anywhere in the nation.
The Human Life Amendment, also known as the personhood amendment,
says the words "person" or "persons" in the state constitution
should "include any human being from the moment of fertilization."
If voters agreed, legal experts say, it would give fertilized eggs
the same legal rights and protections to which people are entitled.
The ballot initiative is funded by Colorado for Equal Rights, a
grass- roots antiabortion organization. Its purpose, initiative
sponsor Kristi Burton said, is to lay a legal and legislative basis
for protecting the unborn. Its passage would also open the door to
modifying other laws for the same purpose, she said.
As to what laws could then be modified, Burton would not elaborate.
"We try not to focus on some of the issues that will be taken care
of later on," she said, repeatedly saying that the amendment is not
aimed at outlawing abortion.
But that is the objective, according to one of the measure's biggest
supporters, Colorado Right to Life. "The goal is to restore legal
protection to preborn babies from the moment they are conceived,
which is the only way we're going to stop abortion," said Leslie
Hanks, vice president of the group.
Critics say the aim is not just to outlaw abortion in Colorado but
ultimately to overturn Roe v. Wade by igniting a court battle that
would bring the issue to the U.S. Supreme Court, where, proponents
of the measure hope, a conservative majority would strike down the
1973 decision that legalized abortion nationwide.
And the amendment carries broader implications, critics say, such as
limiting medical research involving embryos, inviting intrusive
government oversight of pregnancies, and banning certain
contraception, including the morning-after pill and the intrauterine
device, or IUD.
"If we give fertilized eggs legal rights, abortion could be
considered murder and a woman could be sent to jail for making the
difficult life decision to terminate a pregnancy," said Crystal
Clinkenbeard, spokeswoman for Protect Families, Protect Choice, a
coalition of medical professionals, community groups and religious
leaders who oppose the amendment.
The measure also could expand the reach of the law into other
arenas, legal experts say. For instance, if a woman miscarries, she
could be held responsible if it were found she caused it, even
unintentionally. If she smoked or drank while pregnant, her
behavior might be considered negligence. Damaged eggs might be
eligible for monetary damages. The use of fertilized eggs at
fertility clinics or in medical research labs would come into
question because the disposal of unused eggs could be considered
homicide.
"Because this amendment would define a person in a given way and
expand the universe of who persons are, it expands the reach of laws
that deal with persons," said Bill Araiza, a law professor at Loyola
University in Los Angeles.
The amendment also calls into question pregnant women's medical
access, said Scott Moss, a professor at the University of Colorado
Law School. "If a pregnant woman is really two people with exactly
equal rights, then it is not clear the pregnant woman can undergo
any medical treatment that jeopardizes a fertilized egg," he said,
adding that the amendment would generate a flood of litigation.
Colorado is the first state to succeed in putting this particular
question to voters, but several others have tried to recognize
fertilized eggs as persons through ballot initiatives or
legislation.
"Even though the success wasn't immediate, this battle isn't over,"
said Robert Muise, a lawyer with the Michigan-based Thomas More Law
Center, a Christian public interest firm that has drafted language
for efforts in Oregon, Montana and Georgia. "This is just the first
round."
Colorado's initiative has proved divisive among abortion opponents.
Hanks, from Colorado Right to Life, said a memo had been circulating
among legislators and antiabortion leaders arguing that the timing
and language of the measure are not right.
Groups such as National Right to Life, which separated itself from
its Colorado counterpart over a separate issue, and Focus on the
Family have not supported the initiative either, Hanks said. "They
surely haven't helped us," she said. "We've gone this alone in
Colorado."
Carrie Gordon Earll, senior director of issues analysis at Focus on
the Family, said the organization supports efforts to ban abortion,
but not the Colorado strategy. "In our view, you don't have to have
a personhood amendment before the court to overturn Roe v. Wade. You
just need the right court. So we are more interested in the makeup
of the court than what particular challenge comes before the
court," she said.
The Colorado Supreme Court ruled that the measure could go before
voters in November, but it is unclear whether support will be found
at the polls.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/12/AR2008071201615.html
This reminds me of a law making pi = 4.0000000
|
Or the abject ignorance and bigotry of shiteating anti-immigration scumbags. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: Is A Fertilized Egg A Human "Person"? COLORADO Anti-Abor |
|
|
On Jul 13, 3:03 pm, "Ranting" <r...@rant.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"sweetbum" <lilhor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c498caae-29ef-4f39-9db8-ffc142f34dae@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Which naturally prompts the question: Can an embryo be tried as an
adult?
--------------------------
No , but a person can be tried and convicted for killing an embryo and
feminists just love that.
|
That makes less sense than your previous post in this thread. |
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Attila
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Is A Fertilized Egg A Human "Person"? COLORADO Anti-Abo |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 08:59:27 -0600, "_ Prof. Jonez _"
<theprof@jonez.net> in alt.abortion with message-id
<6e182cF4qeqdU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
This reminds me of a law making pi = 4.0000000
Or the abject ignorance and bigotry of shiteating anti-immigration scumbags.
|
I would not know since I am not anti-immigration.
I am anti-illegal immigration.
Apparently you cannot see the difference.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification, not work permit or citizenship.
Support H.R. 1940: Birthright Citizenship Act of 2007 |
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Sponsor
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